Well, mental illness does not mean "down in the dumps". Serious mental illness, the kind that needs to be medicated, means that without it, you would not be sane enough to live within society.
I'm not entirely clear on the kinds of mental illnesses that would necessitate an abortion, though. Can anyone clue me in? What is the major concern in this situation?
Here is why Obama is wrong. One would hope that making a choice for a woman is not a Pro choice stance.
However,
Woman can miss her period sometimes once or twice in row and it not alarm her. This is in the case of women in late 30's or 40. That also happens to be an age that they could get pregnant.
So Obama suggest telling those women ' Hey, I know you figured it out that you were pregnant after 11 weeks but now you are 'stuck' with it because you now have entered the ` late term ` clause' .
Obama is talking about late term, though, no? So that would be after 22 weeks or so. So they'd still have another three months to decide.
Late term is not clearly defined. In fact here is what I found on it online :
A late-term abortion often refers to an induced abortion procedure that occurs after the 20th week of gestation. However, the exact point when a pregnancy becomes late-term is not clearly defined. Some sources define an abortion after 12 completed weeks' gestation as "late".
You're being intellectually dishonest here. We're discussing the phrase "late term" in the context of a partial-birth abortion ban. That's not in reference to 12 weeks out, and I assume you know that.
err what?
Your quote is irrelevant to the discussion. No partial-birth abortion ban I've ever seen even discussed sets the line at 12 weeks. Its way, way later.
Fair enough.
can you show me /us where you have seen the late term defined in weeks by Obama?
No. Nor do I need to. The context is more than sufficient. The topic was partial-birth abortion, and we know where that legislation tends to define "late term."
No NO we don't, you do sir.
I don't like to leave room for imagination.
Late-term abortions are abortions which are performed during a later stage of pregnancy. Late-term abortion is more controversial than abortion in general because the fetus is more developed and may even be viable. A late-term abortion often refers to an induced abortion procedure that occurs after the 20th week of gestation. However, the exact point when a pregnancy becomes late-term is not clearly defined. Some sources define an abortion after 12 completed weeks' gestation as "late. Canada: During the year 2003, 6.5% of induced abortions were performed between 13 to 16 weeks, 2.2% between 17 to 20 weeks, and 0.8% over 20 weeks. This sample included only those procedures carried out in hospitals. [7] England and Wales: In 2005, 9% of abortions occurred between 13 to 19 weeks, while 1% occurred at or over 20 weeks. [8] New Zealand: In 2003, 2.03% of induced abortions were done between weeks 16 to 19, and 0.56% were done over 20 weeks. [9] Norway: In 2005, 2.28% of induced abortions were performed between 13 to 16 weeks, 1.24% of abortions between 17 and 20 weeks, and 0.20% over 21 weeks. [10] Scotland: In 2005, 6.1% of abortions were done between 14 to 17 weeks, while 1.6% were performed over 18 weeks. [11] Sweden: In 2005, 5.6% of abortions were carried out between 12 and 17 weeks, and 0.8% at or greater than 18 weeks. [12] United States: In 2003, from data collected in those areas that sufficiently reported gestational age, it was found that 6.2% of abortions were conducted from 13 to 15 weeks, 4.2% from 16 to 20 weeks, and 1.4% at or after 21 weeks. [13] Because the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's annual study on abortion statistics does not calculate the exact gestational age for abortions performed past the 20th week, there is no exact data for the number of abortions performed after viability. [13] In 1997, the Guttmacher Institute estimated the number of abortions in the U.S. past 24 weeks to be 0.08%, or approximately 1,032 per year
A late-term abortion often refers to an induced abortion procedure that occurs after the 20th week of gestation. However, the exact point when a pregnancy becomes late-term is not clearly defined. Some sources define an abortion after 12 completed weeks' gestation as "late.
Canada: During the year 2003, 6.5% of induced abortions were performed between 13 to 16 weeks, 2.2% between 17 to 20 weeks, and 0.8% over 20 weeks. This sample included only those procedures carried out in hospitals. [7] England and Wales: In 2005, 9% of abortions occurred between 13 to 19 weeks, while 1% occurred at or over 20 weeks. [8] New Zealand: In 2003, 2.03% of induced abortions were done between weeks 16 to 19, and 0.56% were done over 20 weeks. [9] Norway: In 2005, 2.28% of induced abortions were performed between 13 to 16 weeks, 1.24% of abortions between 17 and 20 weeks, and 0.20% over 21 weeks. [10] Scotland: In 2005, 6.1% of abortions were done between 14 to 17 weeks, while 1.6% were performed over 18 weeks. [11] Sweden: In 2005, 5.6% of abortions were carried out between 12 and 17 weeks, and 0.8% at or greater than 18 weeks. [12] United States: In 2003, from data collected in those areas that sufficiently reported gestational age, it was found that 6.2% of abortions were conducted from 13 to 15 weeks, 4.2% from 16 to 20 weeks, and 1.4% at or after 21 weeks. [13] Because the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's annual study on abortion statistics does not calculate the exact gestational age for abortions performed past the 20th week, there is no exact data for the number of abortions performed after viability. [13] In 1997, the Guttmacher Institute estimated the number of abortions in the U.S. past 24 weeks to be 0.08%, or approximately 1,032 per year
Source? I'm assuming you are linking to an actual or proposed partial birth abortion ban.
Anything else would be completely irrelevant, and fear-mongering.
The statute in question, 18 U.S. Code 1531, bans the procedure. It is neutral on the question of when the abortion occurs. It is the technique itself that was banned.
This procedure is generally used between the 18th and 26th week (though there are outliers in either direction).
fear mongering?
WHAT!
Thats it the conversation ends. Now you're into silly season taunts.
Late term is defined as third trimester, ie, after 6 months.
Again, show us where obama defined late term defined as 3rd trimester. I could not find it but I may have missed it. Could you help show me that?
Fine. Let's grant you that Obama MAY have meant 12 weeks. He might also have meant 4. Or 3 hours. Or 6 years. We just have no way to know, really.
Actually, we do; the interviewer was asking him specifically about third-trimester and partial-birth abortions. (See elsewhere in this thread for the quote.) His use of the term "late-term" was in direct response to that.
Nah, I was making fun of the people who suggested otherwise. Obama COULD have meant anything, but you'd have to be really dense, intentionally or not, to misunderstand what he meant.
"Obama MAY have meant 12 weeks. He might also have meant 4. Or 3 hours. Or 6 years. We just have no way to know, really."
And therein lies the problem with Obama. One never knows where he stands.
I think it's awesome that you took the time out to write that. It's so awesome that I'm taking time out to tell you how great it is that you posted it.
The question he was responding to was clear: "...there seems to be some real confusion about your position on third-trimester and partial-birth abortions." He's talking specifically about the third trimester when he says "late-term" in his answer; the question provided the context.
Can you too show me /us where you read that late term was discussed as 3rd trimester by obama?
The context comes from the question posed in the original article:
http://relevantmagazine.com/life_article .php?id=7591
Again, "...there seems to be some real confusion about your position on third-trimester and partial-birth abortions. Can you clarify your stance for us?"
Excuse me but I don't see the answer to my question in that article . Quite possible I missed it.
Where is 'late term 'defined as 3rd trimester?
there seems to be some real confusion about your position on third-trimester and partial-birth abortions. Can you clarify your stance for us?
... I have repeatedly said that I think it's entirely appropriate for states to restrict or even prohibit late-term abortions as long as there is a strict, well-defined exception for the health of the mother.
Ahha your right. Yeah my CRTL-F does not work in IE for some reason.
He is talking about 3rd trimester in this interview but he uses the language 'late term' which is defined as can start at 12 weeks (see my block quote above).
But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he calls 3rd trimester as later term.
Now on partial birth abortions: Partial birth abortion law speaks only to the method of abortion used. It is a method used before the 3rd trimester or was used since it is banned now.
Not withstanding his 3rd trimester position. I still stand by the statement that you cannot call yourself pro-choice if you don't leave a choice to the woman. If you restrict that right even in the 3rd trimester you are not Pro -Choice.
Um, yes you can.
I'm gonna have to write a diary about Casey v. Planned Parenthood, which controls the abortion question (it superceded Roe v. Wade, yet nearly nobody seems to have noticed that).
You have a right to an abortion up until the point of viability, under the Constitution. Your right is not unfettered.
None of your rights are unfettered. Every single right you have can be, and is, regulated and restricted at times by your government.
I'm sorry but what does Supreme Court case law have to do with the definition of the term pro-choice?
Have I missed something in this conversation?
I'll compose the diary and make my point that way.
I can't really do that effectively in the confines of a traditional comment. I'm not dodging, either. This isn't an easy topic to wade into, and I would prefer to do it right.
While I wait for the answer from you I'll even submit another point I made originally.
PRO CHOICE is a black and white issue. There is no 'Grey'. YOU are either for choice for women or you are about making laws to take that choice away. Even if it's a choice you are forcing upon them in one single case.
You don't have the right to define a choice for women if you are of the pro choice stance. Life is not considered 'human life' till birth among pro choice supporters.
That is why there is a federal ban on late term abortions. Please site a poll where any majority of Americans feel it is absolute. It is not a black and white issue.
Hold on did I miss something. LOL and quite possibly.
There is no federal ban on later term abortions. You maybe are confusing it with partial birth abortion, which a 'method' used to perform such abortion.
What poll do you need for me to cite on the word pro-choice?
Go look up NARAL maybe. NO pro-choice organization is anything but against any law restricting a woman's choice to CHOOSE.
Naral agrees with Obamas position. Please, show me anyone credible source that believes abortion is an absolute right through delivery.
Come on man are you just going to throw it out there and hope it sticks. NARAL is not with Obama on any restrictions. It's against their charter.
NARAL site: "For more than 30 years, NARAL Pro-Choice America has been the nation's leading advocate for privacy and a woman's right to choose."
There is no ambiguity in that statement about "we give up the right of a woman in cases of late term abortions under any circumstances".
Some more information on NARAL:
Lobbying Congress: NARAL Pro-Choice America fights the relentless onslaught of anti-choice policies and legislation introduced in Congress and works with pro-choice legislators in support of bills to protect a woman's right to choose and expand women's access to reproductive-health care. Fortune Magazine has described NARAL Pro-Choice America as "one of the top 10 advocacy groups in America."
Ah, thank you. I'd been living under a rock and had no idea as to whom NARAL is, and for what they fight.
I misinterpreted your comment. I should not have posted that. I apologize.
I should not multitask to that degree, it seems. I am abjectly sorry.
