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you're starting to look like a contortionist (2.00 / 1)

Are we already at the place where we have to say that everything is good news for Obama?  This is starting to sound like double-inverted spinning.

He needs to get the running-mate thing right--and it CANNOT be Bayh, Biden or Kaine.  He needs to pull something big out of the hat and it better be wearing a pantsuit.


by Thaddeus on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 04:16:31 PM EST

Re: you're starting to look like a contortionist (2.00 / 2)

Actually Biden is a great pick. He's smart as a whip and tough and doesn't come with the baggage of some other possibilities. And besides his depth of knowledge in foreign affairs, he's the major leader in Congress in policy to combat violence against women.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 04:25:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you're starting to look like a contortionist (none / 0)

Biden for Secretary of State.

We all come with baggage.


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 04:26:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you're starting to look like a contortionist (2.00 / 1)

Some come with a whole lot more than others.  Biden doesn't start out with a sizable percentage of independents unwilling to vote for him.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 04:30:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you're starting to look like a contortionist (none / 0)

Independents will be voting for Obama not against Clinton.

I'm tired of this lie (yeah, it is) lie.


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 04:34:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Unless you have data to disprove it (none / 0)

No, it's not. So how about a little less attitude and a little more facts?


Hillary is voting for Obama, so why aren't you?
by BrighidG on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 07:37:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I've only seen one poll (none / 0)

with Obama/Clinton, and it did actually help him against McCain/Romney (the only GOP pair polled against Obama/Clinton).

It was FOX so if you think evil permeates their polling operation as well as their news coverage you may not believe it.

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/0619 08_release_web.pdf


by JJE on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 08:49:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Huh? (none / 0)

Biden is knowledgeable about int'l relations but I doubt very much that he is seen as especially smart by his colleagues in Congress.  He is a blowbag and publicity hound and he has considerable baggage.  Besides two incredibly poor presidential campaigns, Biden has been in the pocket of the credit card companies for years.  He is not a very original thinker and he has no almost no working experience outside the privileged position of the U.S. senate, as he's been there for over thirty years!  

He in NO way represents change nor would he add anything to the ticket except the appearance of foreign policy experience which would only underline the perception of inexperience on Obama's part.  

He would add nothing in terms of bringing another state to the Dem column.  I really think Biden is the WORST choice of the ten or so names that have been floated.


by Thaddeus on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 04:38:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huh? (2.00 / 2)

Now, that's just silly. Biden is widely recognized on the Hill as being very, very smart. And my dear friend who was at the Jefferson-Jackson dinner in Iowa, the one where the pundits starting saying Obama could win the state -- She said that Biden was just amazing - so smart, so together.

And Biden has done more than you think and more good things than you know about. For instance, he is the person most responsible for the Violence Against Women Act and other related legislation.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 04:42:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Silly? (none / 0)

Sticks and stones, my friend, but the evidence is on my side.
Biden was viewed as a total lightweight and overweening up to and through his abortive presidential run in 1988 when he had to plagiarize a speech early in his campaign.  I suggest that he was viewed widely as a narcissistic
lightweight through his hair plug period (which was strangely very long).  It's difficult not to gain some "gravitas" over a thirty plus year career in the senate, but given that length of service he has never been viewed broadly as a particularly impressive senator.

For evidence, for Christ's sake, just look at his presidential campaign of 2008.  How many of his supposedly impressed colleagues endorsed him?  Damn few.  He was unable to gain support or raise monry.  Pretty pathetic for a supposedly impressive senator with loads of seniority.

Furthermore, if you have worked on the Hill, or simply know many members of Congress, you know what they think about someone who is in love with Snday morning air time.  Hint: they are not that impressed.  


by Thaddeus on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:45:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So great in Iowa? (none / 0)

How did he do in the caucuses?


by Thaddeus on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:46:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huh? (2.00 / 2)

"but I doubt very much that he is seen as especially smart by his colleagues in Congress"

Uhhh. Wrong. And I work on the hill...


by Dale Johnson 007 on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 04:44:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL (none / 0)

You work on the Hill.  Well, that's pretty darn definitive.

I think one's impression of Biden is a pretty valid indicator of political savvy.  I also worked on the Hill but that's not requisite experience for evaluating a blowbag.  Off the cuff, Biden is an absolute disaster (see Youtube video linked on this page).  Why?  Because he's not smart enough to know when he's stepping in shit--much like John Kerry.  Worse, he gets carried away by his own voice and his own shtick.  Understandable in a rookie, but after thirty years in the Senate?  That's just a sign of limited ability.

He's also not smart enough to organize a national campaign.  He has run for president twice, with laughable results.  As I mentioned above, despite the supposed respect of his colleagues he had zero traction in 2008.  Can you recall which of his colleagues endorsed him?  It's worth looking up.

He went nowhere because he can't be taken seriously as a potential president.  He is nowledgeable about international relations but only from the privileged viewpoint of a lifetime senator.


by Thaddeus on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:56:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama needs an attack dog (2.00 / 1)

for a VP against McCain.  That's just the reality.  The Republicans are going to be VICIOUS.  IMO, the best attack dog out there is indeed Biden.

Obama is change enough.  People want to be assurred about Obama.  Obama choosing an unknown IMO would be even MORE of a disaster.

Picking the FIRST African-American president is going to be tough enough.  As a result, his VP choice needs to be someone who makes people feel comfortable.  

Biden, shockingly, has not said a peep for many weeks.  That says to me that he IS able to keep his mouth shut when he has to.


by puma on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 04:46:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you're starting to look like a contortionist (2.00 / 1)

What do you think of Clark?  Given the renewed interest in NATO and all things steel-plated, he could be a good balance to Obama's background.  But I don't see too much talk of him around here.  Any thoughts?


by the mollusk on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 05:21:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you're starting to look like a contortionist (2.00 / 1)

With all due respect, the notion that Senator Biden has no baggage is inaccurate.  And I say this with great admiration fr the work he does.  He's a good Senator.

But this wasn't all that long ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM19YOqs7 hU

And let's not forget what sunk his own presidential campaign in '88.


by erodriguez on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 06:49:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you're starting to look like a contortionist (none / 0)

That's pretty tame stuff to virtually everyone.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 07:48:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you're starting to look like a contortionist (2.00 / 1)

No. Critical criticism is good. On the flipside, do you have anything positive to say?


Saxby Chambliss: Asshat
by mikeinsf on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 06:54:56 PM EST
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